Art matrix

Steve Gray · Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 1569 Location: Geelong

I am about to create an art matrix, one that shows on the one side low level art and on the other high level art, with a range of descriptors for the various sections as they rise and fall etc.

Before jumping in to this (Oops too late... Rolling Eyes

) I thought I would ask if anyone knows of any already in existence (or something similar...)

Any links to art theorists etc would be useful.

I hope someone can give some direction here. Smile

AvG · Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 1912

oooh you are a very brave man indeed.

I'd be interested to know what the purpose and perceived value would be of the matrix..... and who gets to define lower level and higher level?

gggraph · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: Re - Art matrix

Hi Steve - I look forward to seeing how you go....

I am reminded, though, of the scene from 'Dead Poet's Society' where they work out the worth of a poem with a graph...

I've just been helping my son with his art homework (I failed art in Form 2, by the way...) and they have three pages of multiple choice questions to help them assess the work. Some of them are things like :

1: The artist has created his layout by (A) the rule of thirds (B) the Golden Mean, etc etc.

2: What subject is the artist depicting?

3: What tools haas the artist used to create this work?

4: What is the artist trying to say with this work?

The painting they're looking at is 'Blue Poles'....

Grant

Steve Gray · Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 1569 Location: Geelong

The purpose, to create a device that can explain to people the difference between, High end art and the other end art... for me it will stop or at least offer a guide for some folks in the old "my five year old can do that" debate etc... Smile

bravery, nah just naivety I guess. sure it will have it's critics, that just makes it good yeah? Smile

Loosid · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 146 Location: Sydney

The Iraq war has its critics......

Steve Gray · Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 1569 Location: Geelong

So did Hitler, Mahatma Ghandi, and probably Confucious... to name a few...

Loosid · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 146 Location: Sydney

So....Hitler's good?

Steve Gray · Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 1569 Location: Geelong

His mum probably thought so...

gggraph · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: Re - Art matrix

That's Steve Hitler, the violinist.

Grant

Hayley · Joined: 05 Feb 2007 Posts: 344 Location: Geelong

On the topic of the topic.... the development of any type of matrix which is intended to be used as a measurement, instructional or assessment tool in order to box 'art' is, in my opinion, inherently impossible, dangerous and should be strongly discouraged. Why on earth would you want to do this Steve?

The issues, to name a few (hundreds making there way through my thoughts in quick succession), are that the whole industry, concept, practice of art (please lets not get into another 'What is art?' discussion...) is purely subjective and can only, and should only ever be this way. Anyone who believes they can establish a formulated 'matrix' for others, based on their own belief systems could be argued to be supremely arrogant.

The trouble is that too many people currently uneducated or inarticulate about art, are looking for quick answers (impressionable and lazy students for example) and a cheat sheet towards a superficial understanding of a concept which is infinitely uncontainable and evolving. Therefore, developing a matrix would be reducing and diluting the enormously broad concept of 'art' into what could only be an oversimplified, stupified, superficial table of inappropriate judgementalism.

I hope one doesn't exist already and I hope you don't bother out of respect for the idea of broadening minds rather than narrowing them. The use of the terms 'High' and 'Low' in regard to art disturbs me deeply to begin with. I'm not attacking you personally Steve, I just want you to pause to think about the psychology, philosophy, implications and possible impact of your project.

There's so much more I'd like to say on this, but I'll stop ranting and leave it here, open to further discussions and input from others.

I hope you use your powers for good instead of evil!

Jo Tyler · Joined: 13 Aug 2008 Posts: 489 Location: Newcastle

Hi Steve
Hayley has put forward her opinion so well I won't even try to add anything to it. I just agree with it 100%.

sunfire · Joined: 01 Mar 2008 Posts: 1429 Location: Toodyay

& so do I, agree with Hayley that is.
Just reading the sugestion of classifing so called high or low brow art is making me feel too inferior & intimidated to join in this forum.
I have a strong suspician that I'm classed on the inferior end, the words low brow, always sound like a put down.

AvG · Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 1912

I think Hayley raises some good points about the potential pitfalls of such a matrix. Theorists , educators and people who have made a lifelong career out of the arts don't necessarily agree about what is high end / low end art or even what is art...or art vs craft for the matter.

gggraph · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Re - Art matrix

Steve Gray · Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 1569 Location: Geelong

Thanks guys and in particular Hayley, well done.

Over the years I have seen people teaching VCE+ level art and have watched in amazement as they stand in gallery's trying to give their students info on the artworks, some purely subjective, some naive and some downright dumb, in the classroom they have books and proforma's that espouse the "checklist formula", what do you see? what was the artists intent? and so on.

A matrix would be aimed to give a starting point (that's all it can be) so that a student (at any level) could start to grasp where their visual world fits...

The terms High and low do imply a sense of worth, so give me some other descriptors... oh hang on, in a $$ sense a value... hmm lets see, a Damien Hirst at a few mill is different to Aunt Mary's hut with red roof by a river. so in pure $$ value there is high and low.

When in secondary art school as a late teen, the info given to us then on theory and looking at art was minimal and hard to understand at times, then at uni the tables turned and other views put forward, more confusion, then post uni the discussion altered a bit again.

Perhaps the term matrix is tricky in this sense, perhaps levels is tricky.

Okay so the aim is to create a device to assist "students" of the arts to be able to put things in to some form of perspective, on a practical level, so they can explore the philosophical and other intellectual musings later based on the basics. "OH aunt Mary's work fits into the space of Amateur artist, got it."

Example we had a kid in Yr 11 that arrived from another school a few weeks into the term, the teacher at that point had given us a range of info and had let us do a work of our own choosing, okay... this kid pulled out a badly drawn cartoon and started working on that. The discussion was tricky for the teacher about what was "Suitable" to work on and classify as art. the student was mortified to find out that her work was somehow of "lesser or different value"

Sunfire, I respect that people want to create works that are purely a past time that looks at dabbling, heck these art folk keep the local art supplies store running, so all the power to them, but their work is different to active contemporary artists that get a Guernsey in commercial galleries. So continue I am not out to make you or others feel any less an active part of the wonderful world we live in, the intention of the artist is what's different here I guess.

You will note I carry on about starting points (in a lot of forums), and in creating an art resource blog I am also on about giving people starting points that go a bit further than what they may get at school, TAFE, Uni etc...

I am all for pushing boundaries and exploring, therefore the matrix idea, NOTE I have posted the concept here to test the waters as I have found a few things out.
1. It's a tricky notion to explore and I am having a challenge with the terms and positioning of the descriptors.
2. There may already be something out there that I did not know about.
3. "Team work" can do more than "me work".

I like the juggling that takes place in a discussion, seemingly more so with women (experience shows me this...) I put up an "argument" someone challenges the terms and concepts, I alter it, it gets thrown up again and so on. Hopefully the end result is such that a decent end product ensues and not a watered down vague set of guidelines, hopefully a strong and coherent set of guidelines.

Smile

Oh one last thing (at this point) that Hayley mentioned

"I hope you use your powers for good instead of evil! "

"Extremely arrogant"

If I was arrogant (to any degree) I would just do it and not consult others. Good rather than evil, I sure hope so! Smile

and I think the blog resource is proving that. Neutral