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The Pook
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2904
Location: Tasmania
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 Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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It's easy to leave off a /quote when quoting quotes of quotes of quotes, which throws everything out!  |
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jelly bean
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:01 am Post subject: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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| avangils wrote: |
You choose not to disclose artistic preferences, or anything about yourself aside form a vauge and possibly irrelevant claim to have had lots of media coverage, yet feeling quite happy to call other forum members to account for their own work choices......which if I remember rightly was smething you complained about with Darian's complaints. All a bit too one sided for me and I don't think at all productive so I'm bowing out of this 'discussion' |
I choose not to talk about my own work in this forum because I want don't want to compromise my own clarity (please read back). I simply asked darian if I could see a gallery of his work. I couldn't really understand it from what I could see. If he doesn't want to show me anything else, then that's entirely up to him. Nobody is complaining.
This discussion has been far from one sided... Your request for me to list art that I consider 'good' has little to do with what we were in the middle of discussing. If you don't wish to participate anymore, then I wish you well, good luck and goodbye. |
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jelly bean
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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Now that our 'discussion' is over, I'll gladly oblige avangils by listing a few things that I like.
- Andrew Baine, Giuseppe Rocco, Ralph Peacock, Walter Sickert, John Passmore, Lloyd Rees, Edwin Tanner...
- Turner's tour of Switzerland.
- Bacon's portrait of Michel Leiris (1976). |
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jelly bean
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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Simon,
To recap on this conversation, I said earlier:
"I'm afraid we think somewhat differently on this matter. If you really ARE of the belief that artists can so whatever they wish, I can't agree with you"
to which you said:
| Simon wrote: |
never said that, I said in response to your question that they have the right to create offensive art |
I'm not sure that we're on the same page... So, you think that offensive art is fine, but an artist saying whatever they wish in their work is unjustified? What is the point of difference between these exactly?
I am simply saying that if an artist feels entirely unrestricted by ethics and or morals, then offense will surely be caused when the work is brought to public view.
While I agree that art often helps stimulate discussion on social issues, in many cases, strategically offensive artworks undermine morals and contribute to social unrest. |
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Simon
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1856
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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You want me to explain the difference between doing anything you wish, and causing offence? | jelly bean wrote: |
I'm not sure that we're on the same page... |
Agreed. |
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sunday
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 3995
Location: Victoria
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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| jelly bean wrote: | | While I agree that art often helps stimulate discussion on social issues, in many cases, strategically offensive artworks undermine morals and contribute to social unrest. |
Is social unrest something to be avoided? |
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The Pook
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2904
Location: Tasmania
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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| "It's people like you wot cause unrest..." - Monty Python |
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Hayley
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 344
Location: Geelong
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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and...'I fart in your general direction'. Monty Python.
'Discussion' too circular for me, I like my conversations with some hint of forward movement, hold the dogma and self-righteousness.
My BS meter is way off the scale on this one. I don't think a forum is meant to shelter people when they have been deserted by real life people for being insufferable gits.
Count me out too. |
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jelly bean
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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Nice to hear from you Hayley. I suppose I may have been self righteous...
But isn't it just a little self-righteous to drop in on a discussion purely to call it BS?
I'd be interested in some sort of resolution to this lilttle arguement we have created... If it's forward movement you want, please offer us some help.
But, since you too offered nothing but BS, a super cool Monty Python reference followed by a casual 'count me out', I guess we've got to assume that you're above (or incapable) of talking this one through.
Last edited by jelly bean on Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:29 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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jelly bean
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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| sunday wrote: |
Is social unrest something to be avoided? |
In general terms, I prefer peace. |
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sunday
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 3995
Location: Victoria
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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| I like the idea of peace too, but sadly history can demonstrate plenty of instances when one man's peace has come at the expense of another man's freedom. I feel grateful to many of those who came before us and dared to offend, to push the boundaries and question the status quo. |
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jelly bean
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: Re: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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| sunday wrote: | | I like the idea of peace too, but sadly history can demonstrate plenty of instances when one man's peace has come at the expense of another man's freedom. I feel grateful to many of those who came before us and dared to offend, to push the boundaries and question the status quo. |
You make a fair point. I agree that when there's a cause to rally behind, art can be an effective medium of protest.
BUT, What if there isn't a cause, or anything positive to be gained?
While we're on the subject, can anybody come up with instances of where artworks helped contribute to 'positive' change in society? I'm sure there are many, but nothing obvious comes to mind at this late hour. |
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Simon
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1856
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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| jelly bean wrote: | ....I agree that when there's a cause to rally behind, art can be an effective medium of protest....
While we're on the subject, can anybody come up with instances of where artworks helped contribute to 'positive' change in society? I'm sure there are many....... |
Here we are talking about work which would have caused offence, like some of the works of one of your favourite artists Walter Sickert, misunderstood or not, he caused offence (from http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,615448,00.html) | Quote: | Cornwell is more direct, however, claiming that Sickert - who made no secret of his fascination with the killings - was Jack himself. "I do believe 100% that Walter Richard Sickert committed those serial crimes, that he is the Whitechapel murderer," she told a US TV show.
More sensationally still, Cornwell, who paid for a battery of forensic tests, is convinced that a defect in Sickert's penis, coupled with his failure to procreate from any of his three marriages and numerous affairs, turned him into a serial killer. Nor, she claims, were Polly Nichols, Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride, Catherine Eddowes and Mary Kelly - all slain between August 31 and November 8 1888 - the only women he killed.
Cornwell's suspicions were sharpened by a series of pictures Sickert painted in 1908, prompted by the murder of a Camden prostitute, which Cornwell claims have an eerie similarity to the autopsy pictures taken of the Ripper's victims. "This painter never painted anything he had not seen," said Cornwell. "This man was a very smart man. If you have these murders going on then you started painting pictures of disembowelled women on the streets, somebody is going to say, 'Let's go take a look at this guy.'"
In one painting of a woman with a pearl necklace, Cornwell said the pose was identical to that of Kelly's when as she was found by police, the only one of the women to be murdered in her bed. Another showed a woman's face mutilated by paint in a way similar to Eddowes's wounds. |
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jelly bean
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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| Simon wrote: |
Here we are talking about work which would have caused offence, like some of the works of one of your favourite artists Walter Sickert, misunderstood or not, he caused offence
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Sickert himself may have been a strange man, but his work was bloody awesome. His work was not designed to be offensive.
http://www.artunframed.com/images/sickert/venice.jpg |
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Simon
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1856
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Re - Archibald 2008 |
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| jelly bean wrote: | | Simon wrote: |
Here we are talking about work which would have caused offence, like some of the works of one of your favourite artists Walter Sickert, misunderstood or not, he caused offence
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Sickert himself may have been a strange man, but his work was bloody awesome. His work was not designed to be offensive.
http://www.artunframed.com/images/sickert/venice.jpg |
Well I'm glad that we agree that it's ok for artists to create work that may offend. (although without the caveats of being designed not to offend, and awesomeness, if that's what makes it ok)
Here's some more awesome work
Goya's Saturn Devouring One of His Children, 1821-23
Gustave Courbet, The Origin of the World
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