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gggraph
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2061
Location: In front of the Computer.
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 Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: How not to do a wash |
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Hi all - II 've recently completed a piece which has given me all sorts of grief - in the end, I wound up doing it 7 times, with a few full-size practise goes in between. Why persevere with a painting that obviously does not want to be? Because the difficult part was the background wash - I figure I've got to learn how to do it sooner or later, so it might as well be sooner...
take#1: Tried doing it the 'right " way- soaked the paper for a couple of minutes, then taped the edge down with brown watercolour tape onto a sheet of plywood.
result: the paper came away from the tape, or the tape split. As well, the plywood stained through the paper. Memo to self: seal the plywood first... The folds are my fault - rescued it out of the bin for the photo.
take#2: Apparently you shouldn't leave the tape in sunlight to help it dry... Put this one in the shade - still didn't stick everywhere, but gave it a go.
Result: the wash came up with really obvious brush marks. In exasperation, I painted over it in acrylic, because I need to practice that too. That didn't look any good either, although I now know that masking fluid will work with it...
Take #3 Read somewhere that tacking it down with a staple gun works - Tried that.
Result: The staples worked - although it buckled during painting, it did dry out flat. But, I've still got bad brush marks. paper is Arches 300gsm medium, Arts Spectrum Ultramarine & cerulean blue paint.
Take #4 maybe it's the paint. Tried this time with W&N Winsor blue.
Result: Got one bit in the top middle that worked fine, the rest is awful again
Take#4A - Practice run on back of an earlier version.
result: not good - lines everywhere... Bottom is getting better, but the ultramarine at the top is NOT happening...
Did a few more until I got one that I was happy with, so:
take #6: The last practice was fine, so this time I wet the sheet all over (with my new Hake brush, bought after version 4) and set to work..
Result: the clouds etc are starting to work, but I've got these #### brushmarks in the bottom bit! and the top has run back off the masked areas.
Take #7. Did it again with the wash thinned right down. This version has about 9 washes over the background.
I think I'll stop there... every book I've read says you should be able to lay down a fairly strong wash in one go - but I don't seem to be able to manage it. I've tried different brushes, paints, wetting the paper first, not wetting the paper first....
Size is A2: 594 x 420mm
Ideas?
Cheers
Grant
Last edited by gggraph on Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:57 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Omphaloskeptic
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 855
Location: Merimbula
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: Re - How not to do a wash |
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| gggraph wrote: | ... every book I've read says you should be able to lay down a fairly strong wash in one go - but I don't seem to be able to manage it.
Ideas? |
Hi Grant,
First of all congratulations on your perserverence and the nice final result. I've gone through much of the same grief with dark washes so I can thoroughly commiserate with you.
BTW, the size of the paper and the masking and the clouds present some very significant obstacles to getting an even dark wash (more on this later). I would suggest experimenting with smaller sizes without any complications until you find the technique that works.
The banding & streaking looks like it's due to an uneven pigment load on the brush. When a sedimentary pigment like Ultramarine Blue is used in a heavy concentration some quickly settles to the bottom of the container. It's easy to get a partial load on a brush of wet pigment from the bottom that won't stay in solution at all so creates a band on the paper. Sometimes I swish the brush around to keep a dense mixture mixed as I'm painting.
I've never been happy with just taping the paper, it always seems to come unstuck at the worst time so I staple the paper to MDF or plywood. Stretching a paper such as Arches which is very heavily sized makes the surface more receptive and helps avoid 'pinholes' and some unevenness.
Anyways, it's been a while since I've worked in watercolour so I decided to experiment a bit and see if I could get an even dark wash...
In all cases the paper is dry, unstretched 600gsm, 30x40cm for the blues, 20x30 for the brown. I think it's all Arches but can't be sure. I used a #12 Round Kolinsky Sable brush and the paper was tilted about 15-20 degrees.
#1: MaimeriBlu Ultramarine Blue
I went over it perpendicular to the initial strokes and slowly tilted the paper back and forth and still ended up with streaking. I tried another sheet and got similar results, ditto for Cobalt Blue. I think the problem is with the fairly large particle size of the pigment, it settles quickly, especially in high concentrations, which can result in uneven areas. I don't think it's possible to get a really deep perfectly even wash with a pigment that granulates like this and is slightly staining. I would experiment a bit to see how dark one can go and still make an even wash. Rather than the 9 it took you I would guess 3 could do it.
#2: Art Spectrum Pthalo Blue, PB15.3 on dry 30x40cm 600gsm Arches unstretched.
The actual colour is a lot richer and darker than this picture shows, much darker than on your painting. There is slight pinholing due to the sizing and some blotches because the paper has been kicking around unprotected for a while but the wash is very flat & even. Too bad the hue is so green. Some pthalo blues are less green but unfortunately I don't think any are close to a true blue. The very high tint strength and small particle size makes it fairly easy to get a dark wash as long as one keeps any edge that needs to be extended nice and wet so there's no stain line.
#3: Art Spectrum Burnt Sienna Hue, PB101 Red Iron Oxide.
Like #2, the actual colour is much deeper and darker than in the photo. I bought this paint for a specific painting but it was too staining, it didn't granulate like a natural Burnt Sienna and the hue was to harsh. One thing I remembered is that it gave a nice dark, even wash so I gave it a try. I wasn't being careful at all but much of it is still pretty good. I tried misting with water using my airbrush (that's all I use it for!) and gently tilting and got much of it dead even.
***
It looks like using a paint that has a pigment with a high tint strength and small particle size makes a dark, even wash much simpler.
Earlier I mentioned the complications that the masking and clouds present. I've done washes with masked & unpainted areas before and often had a problem with paint collecting in areas confined by masking and making backruns when the adjacent parts dry. I have blotted excess pigment with a slightly damp brush or clothe to avoid this. As you found out any excess that is on top of a masked area or at the edges must be dealt with too!
Because the clothesline creates a barrier to the flow when the page is tilted I would try painting the top & bottom halves separately, letting one dry before doing the other, and being sure that I had a closable container of enough paint to easily cover both sections. I also would have the paper dry except for a damp area at the edges of the clouds so there wasn't a harsh edge there.
Hope there's something useful in here.
Thanks for sharing all the details of your efforts. The final painting is really nice!!!
cheers,
don |
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sunday
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 3995
Location: Victoria
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:44 am Post subject: Re - How not to do a wash |
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Grant I know nothing about watercolour and gave up very quickly, returning to my trusty forgiving oils after a few attempts  I just wanted to say well done for persevering, I think your final result was well worth it  |
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belle
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: Newcastle
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject: Re - How not to do a wash |
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| I'm with Sunday on this. Congratulations on final result! |
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gggraph
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2061
Location: In front of the Computer.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:41 am Post subject: Re - How not to do a wash |
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Hi Don - thank you very, very much for going to all that trouble. I was hoping for a couple of helpful comments, didn't expect a complete tutorial!!
I'll give all that a go on the next one, from what you've shown, I'm not really doing anything wrong, I've just managed to pick the wrong paint and a tricky subject to tackle first time out... (typical..)
For what it's worth, a colleague of mine cas nicknamed it "Pegs In Space!". I showed it to a local gallery yesterday - they liked it BUT want it done acrylic on canvas at about a metre square, as apparently watercolour doesn't sell...
Thanks again
Grant |
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Omphaloskeptic
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 855
Location: Merimbula
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Re - How not to do a wash |
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| gggraph wrote: | Hi Don - thank you very, very much for going to all that trouble. I was hoping for a couple of helpful comments, didn't expect a complete tutorial!!
I'll give all that a go on the next one, from what you've shown, I'm not really doing anything wrong, I've just managed to pick the wrong paint and a tricky subject to tackle first time out... (typical..)
For what it's worth, a colleague of mine cas nicknamed it "Pegs In Space!". I showed it to a local gallery yesterday - they liked it BUT want it done acrylic on canvas at about a metre square, as apparently watercolour doesn't sell...
Thanks again
Grant |
You're welcome Grant. I didn't want to be throwing out spurious advice so thought it best I check things out myself before saying anything. As I mentioned in an earlier post, knowledge of pigments can be a real help. It's unfortunate that many books don't go into the subject to the degree they should. I hope you found something in my post that will save a little grief in the future.
It really s#@*! that the gallery knocked back the watercolour. It's a striking painting, perhaps a watercolour medium show would provide a venue where your fine artistry could be appreciated.
Look forward to seeing what you come up with next.
cheers,
don |
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gggraph
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2061
Location: In front of the Computer.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:56 am Post subject: Re - How not to do a wash |
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| Quote: | | It really s#@*! that the gallery knocked back the watercolour |
Oh well, that's their call - for that gallery, what sells is large canvases that are bought as interior decoration. They were actually very helpful, and made a lot of suggestions about how to improve my saleability without affecting what I paint (framing, sizing pricing etc) I should go to other galleries, and I may even try some canvasses.... I'm new to this, and it's not my day job so there's no real pressure to paint what sells.
Of course, I say this with the blissfull arrogance of somebody who hasn't sold a painting. Wait till I sell a large canvas with a couple of dots on it called "Man's Inhumanity to Man" for $50,000, then I may well change my tune.... 
Grant |
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gggraph
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject: Re - How not to do a wash |
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So much for "blissful ignorance" - thought you should know this one actually sold, which is the first painting I've sold to anybody who had a choice (ie not a family member, friend or client...)
Thanks to everybody for their help and support.
Cheers
Grant |
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The Pook
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2904
Location: Tasmania
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject: Re - How not to do a wash |
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ditto sunday & belle! Think I'll stick to oils too!
Admire your perseverence.
Watercolours sell here better than oils and acrylics.
Favourites to purchase at our local exhibtions at the moment (we're having an arts festival in the town this weekend) seem to be, in order of preference:
1. Watercolours
2. Pastels
3. Oils
4. Acrylics & Drawings
Anything with chooks and sheds goes straight away. They're a pretty traditionalist bunch round here. |
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Omphaloskeptic
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 855
Location: Merimbula
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Re - How not to do a wash |
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| gggraph wrote: | | - thought you should know this one actually sold, which is the first painting I've sold to anybody who had a choice (ie not a family member, friend or client...) |
Congratulations Grant! No doubt there will be many more sales to come.
cheers,
db |
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KimO
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 1470
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: Re - How not to do a wash |
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Thats fantastic Grant! Nothing like the buzz you get from that first sale.
Congratulations  |
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gggraph
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2061
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: Re - How not to do a wash |
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Thanks Kim, Don - I was starting to feel left out: My Mum has sold a painting, my son has sold three... and I'm supposed to be the 'serious' artist
Cheers
Grant |
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The Pook
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2904
Location: Tasmania
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Re - How not to do a wash |
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| gggraph wrote: | Thanks Kim, Don - I was starting to feel left out: My Mum has sold a painting, my son has sold three... and I'm supposed to be the 'serious' artist
Cheers
Grant |
Well if it makes you feel any better Grant, I just put seven oils in our annual Arts & Crafts Exhibition and didn't sell any. Out of about 400 paintings they only sold around 50 this year (though one went for $4,000!). Since the ration was 1 in 8 sold, guess I needed to put one more in!
I'm sure with perseverence and a bit of marketing you'll eventually do well. |
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gggraph
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2061
Location: In front of the Computer.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:38 am Post subject: Re - How not to do a wash |
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I've just had the same problem with another painting (now up to version #3) so thought I'd re-read this thread.
I think I've finally worked out what the problem is - some of the pigments I use are sedimentary and are actually precipitating out with each brush stroke. So no matter how much the paper is stretched, moistened or what size brush you use, there is a visible line left every time.
I've switched to a non-sedimentary colour and laid down a perfect wash, first time. The catch is that most of the blues available are sedimentary (eg Ultramarine and Cerulean), and it can be hard to find out which ones aren't....
Cheers
Grant |
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Steve Gray
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 1569
Location: Geelong
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:48 pm Post subject: Re - How not to do a wash |
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Is the board tilted or flat on the bench.
it's been a VERY long time wince I did a wash, but we had boards that we would rest against a table edge and into our laps, then start a wash from left to right top down, that way when the angle was right, the "well" of water and colour would form, s the next lay of colour meant you soaked up some of the previous well of water, the result limited streaking and bushmarks. |
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