Cafe and my art

Chardonnay · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 70 Location: Gold Coast

What do I do?

I have 2 pieces of artwork in an upmarket local cafe/restaurant. It's there on consignment. It had my name, the titles and the price displayed underneath it.

I went into the cafe today, they haven't sold and I was thinking of rotating them with some different works.
.
What do I find upon entering? They are still on the wall and there is no pricing or info about me to be seen at all. I'm thinking.. they are not going to sell if the price has been removed, how will people know they are for sale.

I ask about it. Find out the shop has been sold and the new owner was not aware that they were there on consignment. She said they are hers now, because she bought the shop as is, everything included.

What on earth do I do?

I've been working my butt off lately to raise my profile in the professional art world, with success, so these works are actually worth good money, more than I originally They are framed and all.

I feel like I've been stolen from.

marri · Joined: 28 Aug 2009 Posts: 267 Location: Western Australia

I would go in, remove them from the wall, and take them home but that might not be the best course of action.

I gather you had no written agreement. You need to get something in writing from the previous owner that describes your contract (a stat declaration would be good). The assertion by the new owner that they are "hers" has no legal basis - the fact that something is on a premises you purchase does not make them automatically yours. Even if you can't get anything from the previous owner I would still seek to recover them through the court of petty sessions. If you can establish ownership (are they signed?) you will get them back. If they were purchased by the store there would be reciepts, tax details, and other paper trail by which ownership could be proved (which there won't be).

Mind - I am not a lawyer.

AvG · Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 1912

Oh dear.
First can I just say to everyone. NEVER, EVER leave your work somewhere without a consignment notice / signed written agreement. There is no reason in the world not to.

Jodie if you have one take it forthwith to the new owner. Try to think of any paperwork, correspondence, emails that show the arrangement.

I am also not a lawyer, but some ideas for what it's worth......

A very important point is that the previous owners are the baddies in this as they were aware of the arrangment and did not notify you of the pending change in hands. Quite possibly the new owner believes they really were part of the deal and while she now has possession and is therefore the one you are rying to get them back from.

If there is no evidence she could in all seriousness think that you are trying to diddle her out of her property (how does she know you didn't sell them to the previous owner and are now looking to get them back for free?)

So if you have nothing in writing, locate the old owner. If you don't have their details, ask the new owner (explaining that the paintings were not part of the business and that you need to seek redress from the old owners) If you can't get those details at least ask for the details of the agent who brokered the deal.

Usually something like artwork would have to be entered in seperately on a contract of sale. Perhaps suggest to her that she may wish to check her contract of sale....

If at all possible seek the new owners assistance to help you manage the issue. Neither she nor you want to be 'out of pocket'

Some possible options:
Previous owners pay you an agreed sum (selling without notifying you and including them in the deal means they have effectively stolen them from you)
You remove the paintings and advise the new owner to seek redress from the previous owners (do this IF you have any proof of the arrangment and especially if she by now appears at all sympathetic).
Ask her to reinstate the consignment arrangement (in writing) offering to 'freshen up' her new business by rotating stock and assuring her the benefits of positive publicity.

Legal advice,
Bad PR campaign....

Good luck

gggraph · Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:14 am Post subject: Re - Cafe and my art

This sounds like a similar circumstance to finding stolen property in a second hand shop. The new owner has acted in good faith, but has 'purchased' the goods from somebody who did not have the legal right to sell them. The course of action in those cases is to go to the Police. You do not have the right to unilaterally remove the paintings as the new owner believes them to be their property.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

Cheers

Grant

ocker1 · Joined: 27 Sep 2008 Posts: 775 Location: NZ

police wont do anything " its civil " they say
Hey if that was me I'd just go in and take them , an to hell with them !!
if they put up a fight, all well and good , bring it on !!

Id have me paintings back, and they wouldn't be serving many coffee's for a while

belle2 · Joined: 21 Jan 2010 Posts: 189 Location: Newcastle

Ask for the names of the solicitors who organised the sale and approach the sellers solicitors.

ocker1 · Joined: 27 Sep 2008 Posts: 775 Location: NZ

you'll get no joy whatsoever from lawyers ,they're all EVIL !
AND it'll only cost both of yous money

Jade · Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:15 pm Post subject: Re - Cafe and my art

ah that's terrible news! I hope you get em back alright (or we'll send Ocker in Wink

The Pook · Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 2904 Location: Tasmania

I agree with Grant. Surely it's no different from someone who buys an encumbered or stolen vehicle - they don't legally own it. Caveat emptor. If you didn't sell the paintings, they still belong to you.

Boris01 · Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 228 Location: Western Australia

get two friends, walk in, take em off the wall, walk out

probably not legal in any way, but hey - the law isnt going to stick up for you either way even if it IS your right to take them back - "it's only art" and your the only one that gives a stuff about your own work when it comes to legal matters ( thats my experience )

the longer you leave them there the more reasons the new owner will come up with why you cant have them back

if they chase it up after you've taken YOUR paintings off the wall - tell em to take it up with whoever removed the tags that said they were for sale

Chardonnay · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 70 Location: Gold Coast

Thanks for all your replies.

You guys have given me some great advice that has me reassessing my original plans to dress as a Ninja, do some swift moves and make a quick exit with my art under my arms.

I'll think on it over the weekend...

marri · Joined: 28 Aug 2009 Posts: 267 Location: Western Australia

No, I think the ninja plan is good.

Chrissy D · Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 1053 Location: Queensland

I had a frightening experience last year. I was constantly checking on my paintings in a restaurant. I knew the business wasn't doing well. And when I was going to get them out the following month the place was shut. As for a while the opening hours had changed. So from not opening at lunch to just dinner, not open on Sunday/Mondays then shut.

I made sure I had a written consignment agreement. I had 6 paintings in their. I tried calling a number of times. Left messages on the guys voicemail...no reply. Got concerned.

Eventually I rung the police....not much help there. They said keep trying to contact the person. They weren't going to break into the shop just to get my paintings out.

I did ring the real estate they rented from (I think I found this out through 'investigation' I googled the business details, looked up them on the ABR though it doesn't tell you personal info but business owner name. Then I rung the gym next door asked them the real estate, which I then rang them. I ask if they had heard from the owners. They didn't know they were closed. So I left a message with them (obviously they will would follow up for their rent).

Eventually I got in touch with the guy after a few weeks. He is apologetic and we met to get them out.

Though after that frightening experience I don't know if I would want to do that again.

The main thing is, in the end, I did have that signed document. But for us artists, the legal fight or the value of the art might not be worth the fight in the end. I know I wouldn't have the money to take the guy to court if he did take them. But I also choose some artworks I wouldn't be majorly devastated if I didn't get them back knowing the risk

My advice...call the police. See what they suggest to you and what they can/would do if action needs to take place. Maybe if your find your correspondence identifying your agreement, you can give the new owners a copy, then walk in and take your paintings off the wall. Or like another suggestion, if you still feel comfortable about the situation, start a new agreement and rotate your stock.

All the best for a good outcome

carolyny476 · Guest

marri · Joined: 28 Aug 2009 Posts: 267 Location: Western Australia

Chrissy - "I know I wouldn't have the money to take the guy to court if he did take them." - the court of petty sessions only costs a few peanuts and usually can resolve these types of issues quickly. You have to appear though, which means lost time (the positive side to that is the other party usually does not show up and you get a good ruling).