Copied art works

Cea Breize · Joined: 07 Jul 2009 Posts: 157 Location: Bundaberg

Im not to sure what to call this topic? But I would like to know more about people's thoughts on this subject. I had been asked to bring some of my work into a shop to display on consignment. I did, and had a look while I was there. As I walked around the room, I saw a "copy" of one of Ken Done's paintings. That is, the painting was created by a joe blow, and signed his name..joe blow, on the painting, and also added the word "copy". I am interested to know what people think about this, what the law's here in Australia are etc? Thanks Cea Breize

thecatsgrin · Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 2181 Location: Gippsland

There are a few threads that cover this topic, and it tends to lead to the same conclusions ... It sucks and is against copyright rules etc....
I think if there is the ability to paint a copy, then there is the ability to paint an original. It might not be great...but at least it is the artists own!!
If the painting is painted from a pattern designed by the artist then that is different, it has been created with permission.

Dug · Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Posts: 4837 Location: Gippsland

I would have spoken to the shop owner and reminded them that breach of copyright brings a fine of up to $250,000 for the individual and if they are selling illegal artworks for financial gain then they could also be liable for prosecution.

I would strongly suggest they seek legal advice before displaying stolen work in their shop Very Happy

I have done this occasionally and they usually panic and remove the artwork very quickly.

sunfire · Joined: 01 Mar 2008 Posts: 1430 Location: Toodyay

I can't understand why anyone would want to buy a copy, when they can have an original, but I think it stinks, to be selling a copy.
After all, they are trying to make money from another artists creation, it's stealing, & cheating.
ok, some say they copy to learn, fine, but then they should destroy the work so it isn't floating around causing upsets, nobody should be trying to make money from it.
I have read in some of the magazines which run competitions, that people have tried sending in pictures of their copied paintings as entrys, claiming them as their own & thinking no one will notice. Shocked

Dug · Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Posts: 4837 Location: Gippsland

There was a painting competition at the University I worked at.

One of the major prizes was awarded to a 100% direct copy of an Anne Geddies photograph.

I had a copy of the photo in a reference book I had !

When confronted the artist admitted she copied it from the photo but still refused to admit there was anything wrong with that.

The university just wanted to ignore the whole thing, in the end they withdrew the prize but allowed her to keep the prize money she had been awarded.

Dug · Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Posts: 4837 Location: Gippsland

I often wonder if the same artists would object if I photographed their original work and sold it ? Wink

Cea Breize · Joined: 07 Jul 2009 Posts: 157 Location: Bundaberg

It is so wrong and It makes me so mad! Don't get me wrong, I have copied art works from others to learn, with permission. But if the person coping the work can copy very well, and he can, why not just sell your own work? The work is worthless, because its a copy. He is selling some other paintings which appear to be his own in this particular store. I am considering taking out my work from this store because I dont want to be associated with any artist that does this. It should be illegal! But I am told it is not, so long as the person writes copy there is nothing anyone can do about this. I wonder what the original artist would think of this?

thecatsgrin · Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 2181 Location: Gippsland

As an original artist who has been copied I can tell you it sucks!! It is irritating and rude!
I have seen copies of my work on ebay, even in local shops. I clearly state that no form of copying is permitted without written concent from me, but this gets ignored by some individuals.
I have had listings removed from ebay, but havent persued any of the other copyright laws, it would just end up in legal fees I cant afford.
I decided to get around it a little by designing patterns and plans so people could purchase the design to paint and copy. But the condition is that my name be given the credit for the design.
In the fine arts area of my work that I have been copied in, I have let it go, because I sold the original work and kept no copies (photos) of it , so i have no proof of having done the original. It was sold in an art show, so I dont even know who the buyer was.
I have seen the same copy of my painting at 4 or 5 different art shows since, and it still hasnt sold. While I was really upset when I first seen it, I no longer care too much . It taught me a valuable lesson, and that was to document all my work that goes out.
In future, i wont let it rest. At the least, if I see a copy in an art show, i will ask to have it removed, and will have proof to back it up.
They say copying is a form of flattery.... maybe, but it is like stealing food from someone elses table.
I have used images from other peoples photos, to copy from and use parts of, and to practice with, but i always ask permission, and give credit.

I think Dug's answer was a good one, point out to the shop their responsibility and how it reflects their business, if it is a tricky situation, or topic to mention to them... send an email or better still a letter!
Even a letter to the local paper may have some sort of impact.

Steve Gray · Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 1569 Location: Geelong

I'd like the chance to sue the butt of some hapless fool that copied one of mine... yep I would go them for EVERYTHING they have...

lisa_m · Joined: 24 Nov 2008 Posts: 222 Location: Queensland

thecatsgrin · Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 2181 Location: Gippsland

oooooh!! Appropriation versus copying!!
Thats worth another thread!! Laughing

It is a touchy topic!!

pugwash · Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Posts: 1380 Location: Perth

On a related subject; Does an artist still hold the copyright on a painting he has sold? Can he, for instance, sell prints of the work even though he is no longer the owner? How about if the work was commissioned? He doesn't own the work, but does he still own copyright?

thecatsgrin · Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 2181 Location: Gippsland

I was enquiring about this recently, in regards to illustrations to a book, aswell as supplying images for cards.
The advice i was given was that unless you have sold the rights to the purchaser of a painting, the image remains yours. In other words you can sell a painting , then make prints later on or use the image for other purposes.
Someone who buys your painting cant make copies with out your permission.
And I am fairly sure this is the same for commissioned works.
I was told to charge alot extra to sell a work with the rights to reproduction (copyright) to it.
I am not 100% sure this is all truth (I am not a lawyer) but to the best of my understanding I think it is .

Devilbiss · Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 3214

I think your right Wendy.

Tango · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1360 Location: Melbourne

Wendy is right again Very Happy

( the following is from NAVA )
In December, 2006, several amendments to the Copyright Act were passed by Federal Parliament. For more information refer to the Changes to Copyright Act item in NAVA's News Desk.

Intellectual property (IP) refers to property rights in creations of the mind, such as inventions, industrial designs, literary and artistic works, symbols, and names and images. IP is generally divided into two main categories:  the protection of industrial property (protected by patents, utility models, industrial designs, trademarks, service marks, trade names etc); and copyright, which includes literary and artistic works.

The main authority for Australian copyright law is the Copyright Act 1968 ("the Act"), which is a Commonwealth law and applies throughout every state in Australia. In 2000 an amendment went through designed to protect the utilisation or reproduction and communication of works on the Internet.

In Australia, when an artist creates an "original" form of expression, through using his/her skill and labour, in many cases he/she is automatically granted copyright in that form. Copyright is a bundle of rights, which include economic and moral rights, protected in law. These both prevent other people from making unauthorised use of a work and can also provide the artist with additional economic gain from their work.

Usually the copyright creator initially holds the exclusive right to reproduce all or part of an artwork. When someone else wants to utilise that work, he or she must have acquired a licence (permission) from the creator. The creator may choose to charge a fee for this licence or to not grant a licence.

Copyright is distinct from the physical artwork. This means that, in most cases, when an artist sells an artwork he/she still retains the copyright in that work unless he/she specifically assigns or sells it.

In Australia copyright protection is automatic and there is no need to register copyright.