How about a One-Stop Website for Artists

vans · Joined: 16 Feb 2009 Posts: 63

Here I am again, back from a quick Maccas fuel stop, and with more ideas needing to be put down, before the mundane WORK word pulls me bakc to reality.
Instead of focussing on websites where we can all place our images in the vain hope that something may get sold, why does some enterprising young thing not make a ONE STOP ART Processing shop, where , as an artist, we can go and get everything done from start from finish. We don't all want to produce canvas giclees, and have 500 of them sitting in our garage waiting for an exhibition or a buyer.
Lets start with a button where we can upload our images onto good art specific booklet templates, and get these printed.
Then we have an option where we can get our prints placed on homewears, get our textiles printed, and sewn into cushions etc,etc.
There seem to be various different product specific places on the net, but sifting your way through alibaba and all the chinese trade sites is too much too handle.
All we need is a web savy dude or dudette who can amalgamate the whole lot and make it easy for us! And make money along the way, of course.
This may get up the " old school" painters who only see originals as art, but hey, Ken Done hasn't suffered from being commercially savy.
www.smartproof.com.au has a neat little image database software which could easily be intergrated.

I havent got the time or the want to create this, BUT, it would be soooo good. I would be there in a flash. And Redbubble is very very limited.

We could form a coop, and distribute our booklets as a unified base of artists.

Sorry Vansprang -felt I better modify the subject as that is exactly what leaps out to moderators in spam posts GGGraph

vans · Joined: 16 Feb 2009 Posts: 63

I have been a member of a certain property forum for many many years, and, have made a lot of money through the key word--SHARING. There are a few "elitist" property investors, but, as a whole, everyone tells everyone what they need to know. There is no secrecy, unless there is a very lucrative deal going on of course, but all in all, people have all the information available to ensure other peoples success, if that is what they are seeking.
The art world is not like that. Some people give advise freely, but there seems to be a certain 'snobby" or "elitist" air , or a belitteling when one workmethod is not regarded as artistic enough. Maybe not so much on here, but it seems to be the way. My art is better than yours, You are not 'avant guarde" enough. Your name is NOT Damien Hirst.Why is that. We make a hell of a lot of money from property , with the help of other members. It should be the same on a forum like this.
Is it a glicee or an original? Could it even be--shock, horror, a "digital" print?Where DO they get those placemats printed?OH Ah- I dare not ask.
Why, why, why?
Art is art, and unless you want to win the Archibald, then it should be made visible to as many people as possible, if only to try and infiltrate the Chines repros, which are selling like hotcakes, because they have their marketing right. Tsk tsk to them, because we all hate them, but secretely wish ours would sell that well. There are millions of houses and all have art.
Why not ours? Because they dont know we exist. The average jo-blow has never even heard of Redbubble, and thinks that galleries are for snotty solicitors , professionals,and gay people who like to drink too much wine.

Well, you cant wish people--you have to make it happen, and the only way is to try to get some unified body together to inialate the market! Because those 4 or 5 pieces you sell in a year are not enough to give up your day job. The cost of keeping the head held high and claim to be a "real"artist.
i don't think i know any artist who survives of the income from the art alone. There is obviously something not quite right there. Being elitist isn't working. We need a business model to guide us and propell us forward, like in any other industry.( I just want to be propelled by someone other than me-lol)
A website , the one stop shop- the coops can take it from there. A bit of marketing nuace, and some great artistic possibilities-you can keep the REALY good ones as originals, if you are that way inclined- Better quality then RB plz, producing a truly marketable product. and dont start complaining about my spelling- i have a headache.

vans · Joined: 16 Feb 2009 Posts: 63

K gggraph, ta

Stefan Maguran

You are full of contradictions, vansprang - you say exactly what I say then you also say you don't want to be part of what I'm doing because it is not for charity. Make up your mind!
The one stop shop for artists is here, but the mentality of trimming the Papaver Somniferum is sometimes too prevalent.

vans · Joined: 16 Feb 2009 Posts: 63

Stefan Maguran

You are mising the point by sitting in the background. The foundation for the one-stop shop is here. There are a few gardeners among us, a lot of watchers and backgrounders very careful not to break the harmony of the field, but once you and others decide to stop watching and start acting, it can be done.
By the way, your one-stop shop in property investing - how much did it give to others?
Anything left? I could do with some help as my redundancy payout is about to disappear and the lining of my pockets from my venture is showing my underwear.
Property, from what I gather is slightly more lucrative than art. Everyone needs a roof, not everyone needs a Damien Hirst to rot in the backyard.

Lady Fingers · Joined: 03 Oct 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Melbourne

You seem confused...what you are describing is closer to (bad) design, than art. Design is a respected industry, which may provide the creative titillation and income security you are seeking.

In my opinion Ken Donne forfeited his reputation for money. The demise of his reputation is so widely accepted that his name is now a term used to describe an artist selling out, eg "She did a Ken Donne and turn it into a..."

The more there is of a thing = the cheaper its manufacture = the quicker it ends up in land fill. Greed is the common denominator in the world's environmental and social problems.

vans · Joined: 16 Feb 2009 Posts: 63

Food for thought---much better than a cheese burger with fry's.
I beg to differ with your opinion, however.
Firstly, I am not seeking creative titilation or income security. I have both.
Greed is bred into us from birth. Greed propells progress.
Why are we filled with ambition to succeed? Why do people want to desperately find the algorythm for a successful career, and spend countless hours arguing whether it is better to be an educated or uneducated 'artist". Why do people sell their art in the first place?
One can be blatently in denial and think that their creations are only physical manifestations for a higher purpose, but ultimately, one has to live in the society that has been created. And that society revolves around money, and for most, lack of it.
It is quite humerous to see people evolving from a higher than thou pedistal, filled with an anti-establishment attitude, into "where can I invest my money to end up rich", as soon as the chance comes along.
Is that not greed? Ken Done didn't sell out' He just used his brain and wanted more from life then to paint from a shack for the rest of his life. He used his gift as a tool to get him there.Reg Mombasa did the same. It probably wouldn't be that much of a burden to have such a reputation and allow it to be perceived by some as 'going into demise".
Greed can be put to good use to help the disadvantaged, as long as one's morals and ethics are not jeapordised along the way.
I have done the hard yards in the business world( yes, thank you for calling design a "respected" business) and am now only dipping my feet into this strange world of mental combat, called the "art world".It appears to be very ironic at times. Perhaps I need to partake in a nice chilled red with my Maccas next time?

Stefan Maguran

You don't write bad either, vansprang.

Lady Fingers · Joined: 03 Oct 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Melbourne

All signs indicate that you have been successfully brainwashed.
I wash my hands.

Stefan Maguran

A very community conscious decision.

Devilbiss · Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 2522 Location: Sydney

thecatsgrin · Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 2163 Location: Gippsland

Fast food... fast art... base selling art on a maccas business plan... it might work but 50000 printed t-shirts could they really be considered art??
Ken Dones work had its time and place, and I am sure there are probably people out there that still like it, but as a kid when he was popular, i never thought of what he had done as art ever... to me it was something on postcards and t-shirts that tourists bought... just a design, not art as such.
Whilst I dont consider my self elitist, there is an exclusivity about art that gives it value to the masses.....

Vansprang what is it exactly , you want to acheive???

Everyone should wash their hands...
Fun facts from Infection Control

During an hour's swimming at a municipal pool you will ingest 1/12 litre of urine.

In an average day your hands will have come into indirect contact with 15 penises (touching door handles, etc.)

An average person's yearly fast food intake will contain 12 pubic hairs.

In a year you will have swallowed 14 insects - while you slept!

Annually you will shake hands with 11 women who have recently masturbated and failed to wash their hands.

Annually you will shake hands with 36 men who have recently masturbated and failed to wash their hands.

In a lifetime 22 workmen will have examined the contents of your dirty linen basket.

At an average wedding reception you have a 1/100 chance of getting a cold sore from one of the guests.

Daily you will breath in 1 litre of other peoples' anal gases.

HAVE A GREAT DAY...

and wash your damn hands!

Laughing

cylli · Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 2 Location: Canberra

vans · Joined: 16 Feb 2009 Posts: 63

-quote-Fast food... fast art... base selling art on a maccas business plan... it might work but 50000 printed t-shirts could they really be considered art?

Hi Wendy-Of course i am not talking about anything like that! That market has reached a saturation point to almost make one vomit. That, in my opinion, is not art. The measure of exclusivity needs to be kept for it to be regarded as an artistic endeavour.

-quote-Ken Dones work had its time and place, and I am sure there are probably people out there that still like it

I don't like Done, but I used him as an example of what is possible if you have the want and the need.

[/quote]Vansprang what is it exactly , you want to acheive[quote]

This is long, so grab a coffee.
Do we need to be divided into 2 camps?
1- the anti commercialism camp who are content to let others feed their greed from their effotrs, while they place themselves on a pedestal of higher and ethical thinking, yet are extatic when their works bring them the rewards that they secretely wanted in the first place,in the form of handsome amounts of money, and their agents and uplines even more? Is that realy being against commercialism or consumerism. It is ironic.

2- The consumer affectionados who want to mass produce, sell-( ak RB and the like) and feed their own greed through whatever means is available/They want the recognition, are waiting to be discovered,even if in secret, and so they can reach the next level, and they are happy to make their titbits along the way.

Sure everyone who bats for either camp does so "for the love of art" But there seems to be too many ironies at play.Brainwashing was mentioned. In fact, camp 1 has also been brainwashed into keeping their thoughts in the 20th century by the educators and the gallery owners who have a tried and tested means for them selves to profit.

Cannot threre be a happy marriage of the two, adjusted to the century we now live in?

Could a one stop shop not be a true marriage of both worlds, with the ultimate controll left with the artist, and not others who use them as a vehicle for their own prosperity?
As long as this is available and easily accessible, with certain restrictions put in place to ensure a high quality ( and I have some good ideas on how to achieve this)the ultimate choice whether to use it or not would be left with the artist.

It could be like a variation of RB, but with better quality, better and limited product, and limited to those who are serious.

Elle Mecpherson has a great body, but she is not the most beautiful woman in the world. Her marketing skills have placed her above the rest. Kylie Minogue does not have the greatest voice. Yet again she knows exactly how to manipulate the consumers.
The list goes on.
The MP3 download market has reconstructed to benefit both consumers and artists. The music industry has embraced this new form of consumerism for their own benefit. Mozart is still Mozart, and the Beatles are still the Beatles.

Offering limited products of high quality will not take away from the credibility of the artists original or exhibition, again, as long as some new methods of delivery are used. We live in the 21st century, not in the 20th.

If the art is available to consumers, based on it's own merit, and not prepackaged and dealt out based on a sugarcoated 'sex sells first and now here is the art, or " we will create a boyband and the hits will come after" kind of mentality, then there should not be a moral or ethical dilemna. The dilemna will only be faced by the art dealers and their upline ecosystem, but not the artist.

If they feel a dimena, they simply do not use it.

Landfill is here to stay, until the earth has had enough.
Even if only to feed emotional greed, I would prefer that some of the landfill was mine, as an Australian, and not all of it from the plastic companies in Asia.

The only restriction is that it is all too hard.
And the galleries love it because it gives them the power.
Hence my idea of the one stop shop. All we need is an entrepreneur with plenty of time to set it up. I do not have that time, but I sure as hell would use it.